Our Authentic References

20 comments

1. Assalamo Alaikum
   May Allah bless you and have mercy on the whole Ummat. My dear friend sent me the link for the history of Tabligh. So, after reading the whole document, I will share with you my comments.
   First of all, the author claims that this is an authentic history of the Tablighi Jamat. I commend him for the efforts in collecting the information.
   Please note: the be considered authentic summary of events, we must convey the truth of the events exactly as they occurred. If someone distorts the facts, then this person can no longer be considered authentic, and will not be able to gain the trust and unite the Ummah.
   For my personal understanding of this subject, I have listened to audios and bayans from elders of both sides as well. I humbly present to you that many of the ‘authentic’ details presented in the article are not shared accurately, or some relevant information was missed. I have listed the details here. I would happily retract my statements if someone can provide me evidence that I am wrong.

   1995 June 10 to 12.
   It is authentically reported in a recording by Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib that Maulana Saad mentioned the following during this Mashwera:
   “If you make me the Amir, those connected with Maulana Zubair will be cut off. If you make Maulana Zubair the Amir, those connected with me will be cut off. Therefore, we will work with Mashwera”.
   Here, “we” can refer to the entire group of 10 (and hence prove that the decision was to have an Alami Shura where everyone rotated), or the “we” can refer to Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair only (and hence prove that the system is still an Imarat system, but Maulana Zubair and Maulana Saad will share the Imarat by mashwera to keep the Ummah united).
   Other points we can confirm by the above quote:
   • The purpose of this mashwera was to decide an Amir of tabligh (otherwise, why would Maulana Saad mention such a quote?). This is consistent with the Sunnah of Umar (RA), who appointed a shura of 6 people, who were tasked to appoint 1 from among them to be Amir after he passes away.
   • This Shura of 10 people felt Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair were both qualified to be among the faisals, confirming that both of them were highly regarded and respected by this group of elders.
   • The final decision to have 3 faisals on the Shura (Maulana Izhar, Maulana Zubair, Maulana Saad) confirms that the not everyone on the Shura is a faisal.
   • The Final decision was made by Miyaji Mahrab Sahib (RA).
   We can also consider that maybe the current difference of opinion is because Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) understood that the “we” in “we will work by Mashwera” meant all 10 (which would confirm Alami Shura), while Maulana Saad understood that the “we” meant Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad (which would confirm Imarat), then Maulana Saad would know the truth better for the following reasons:
   • This sentence “we will work by Mashwera” was made by Maulana Saad, so he would know best what he meant by “we”
   • The final decision was made by Miyaji Mahrab Sahib, who is from India, and with Maulana Saad all the time, while Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib mostly stays in Pakistan.
   The question arises: how come Maulana Izhar was part of the Faisal, then? A very reasonable answer for this is the following:
   • Maulana Izhar was a senior Elder and relative to both Maulana Zubair and Maulana Saad. He was included as a faisal to help Maulana Zubair and Maulana Saad, in case these 2 could not agree on something
   • It has been authentically reported by Maulana Yousuf Motala (RA), Khalifa of Hazrat Shaikh Maulana Zakaria (RA), that after the death of Maulana Haroon (RA), Maulana Zakaria (RA) wrote a letter to Maulana Izhar, mentioning to him that after Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA), he would be Amir, and he should train Maulana Saad to take the place of his grandfather. So, Maulana Izhar (RA) was included as a Faisal to train Maulana Zubair and Maulana Saad for this responsibility.

   2015 November 15
   A Mashwera was conducted in Raiwand, including Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib, Maulana Saad Sahib, and elders from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, where the point of making an Alami Shura was presented. I have the full recording of this mashwera, and the account presented by the author, as referenced in “Maujudah Ahwal ki Wadhahat se Muta’alliq” is not accurate.
   This Mashwera, which started with Adab of Mashwera by Maulana Ahmad Bhawalpuri (RA) about the need to have 1 Amir with a Shura. The Mashwera lasted about 42 minutes, and ended without any decision, as some arguments started. There was a discussion whether the Shura to be formed is a Shura for Nizamuddin, or a shura for the World. Maulana Saad accepted that we will make a Shura for Nizamuddin as soon as he returns to India.
   After this gathering, there was no mashwera in which both Haji Abdul Wahab and Maulana Saad sat. The truth is that many elders sat together in the absence of Haji Abdul Wahab and Maulana Saad, and drafted the letter. After completing the letter, they came to Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib and asked him to sign. This much is confirmed by the audio of Maulana Tariq Jameel. Then, when they went to Haji Sahib, they told him that everyone is agreed on this letter, so Haji Sahib recited 101 times “Allumma Khirlee wakhtar lee”, and said that if everyone is agreed on this, then I also agree on this, and signed the letter (recording of Haji Sahib with Maulana Faheed answering Aabir Rashid’s question about making of the Shura). After this, they went separately to Maulana Saad, who did not agree with the letter, and did not sign. Afterwards, they went to other elders, who signed it, and published it. From the above, the following can authentically confirmed:
   • The collective Mashwera which took place with Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahib finished without any decision about Alami Shura. Rather, Maulana Saad did agree that he will make a Shura in Nizamuddin when he returns to India, which he did in December 2015.
   • The letter written announcing the names and rules of Alami Shura and was written without the input of Haji Abdul Wahab and Maulana Saad
   • The authors of the letter told Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib that everyone agrees on this letter, while Maulana Saad did not agree. So, “everyone” did not include Maulana Saad, and therefore it was not a fully honest message to Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib
   • Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib signed the letter on the basis that everyone agreed on it.

   Summary
   I presented clarifications from authentic sources to address my disagreement/objections with the history presented. The split among the workers is very saddening, but the determination of the truth can only be obtained when we are honest and truthful in relating events.
   Lukman (AS) advised to look at both sides of the argument before making any conclusion. For reference, among the complaints against Maulana Saad was claims that he was changing the Nehj of the work by introducing Tameer Masjid and Tajweed in home taleem, which were not practiced in the time of Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA). However, I have an authentic letter written by Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) about 5 amal, which clearly includes Tameer Masjid as part of 2.5 hours. Another letter by Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) directly instructs to do Tajweed of Quran in the home Taleem. So, while some respected elders mention that never saw these amal practiced before, it was clearly the Mansha of Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) that they should be practiced, and therefore, it is not fair to blame Maulana Saad for pushing them.
   There are many other points to mention, but I hope that the above serves as an illustration that there are many important points which must be considered on this discussion. May Allah guide me and all of us towards what is best. Aameen

   Reply

   1. Waalaikumsalam, Jazakallah for your polite comment. You remind me of myself a few years back. I was a follower of Maulana Saad. Like you, I too was polite and respected everyone.

      I realized my problem => I assumed a position and tried to find the slightest justification to satisfy my ego. My ego would be satisfied every time I hear the slightest argument in favor of Maulana Saad. However, I found out that every time, the story changes. Day by day, I realize these arguments don’t add up. Many of them don’t answer the bottom line.

      Now to answer your theories:

      • Whatever hearsay regarding the 1995 meeting, the 1995 agreement is the bottom line. No more Ameer and No more Bay’ah. Maulana Saad violated this.
      • The 3 Faisals were for Nizamuddin and it was increased to 5 Faisals in 1996. Regardless, the 1995 agreement is the bottom line. There is to be no more Ameer. Maulana Saad violated it.
      • It is possible that Maulana Yusuf Motala who lives in the UK may have heard such statements from Maulana Izhar and Zakariyya, which the elders that live 40 years in Nizamuddin has not (Sarcasm). Regardless, the 1995 agreement is the bottom line. Maulana Saad violated it.
      • The stated event in 2015 that you have written is yet another twisted story. Again the bottom line still prevails, the Shura was created and approved in 1993. It stood for more than 30 years. It is thus not a new Usool and therefore does not need Maulana Saad’s approval. The Shura is valid. Ameer is not.
      • Finally, sure Hadratji mentioned the importance of calling people to the masjid (Tameer) & home Tajweed but not the method. Maulana Saad invented the method. Also, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is, he pushed it into practice without Mashwara/Approval. See more here.

      Anyway, I understand your pain. It was hard for me as a blind Saad follower. Many things don’t add up. When I opened up to the possibility that maybe… all elders are right and Maulana Saad alone is wrong… everything just ticked. Please read this latest article which clears many things.

      Above all, I asked Allah through many Istiqarahs to guide me to the truth. I created this website to help people like me find the truth.

      Reply

      1. Assalamo Alaikum Dear Brother. JazakAllah for taking the time to answer my comments. I wanted to share some feedback on these comments. About the 1995 Mashwera and agreement.
         The Mashwera that took place between the following 10 elders after the death of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA):
         1- Miyanji Mahrab Sahib (RA) (India)
         2- Maulana Omar Palanpuri Sahib (RA) (India)
         3- Maulana Izharul Hassan Sahib (RA) (India)
         4- Maulana Saad Sahib (db) (India)
         5- Maulana Zubair-ul-Hassan Sahib (RA) (India)
         6- Haji Abdul Wahhab Sahib (RA) (Pakistan)
         7- Mufti Zainul Abideen Sahib (RA) (Pakistan)
         8- Hajee Engineer Abdul Muqeet Sahib (RA) (Bangladesh)
         9- Bhai Afzal Sahib (Bangladesh)
         10- Maulana Saeed Ahmed Khan Sahib (Saudi Arabia)
         The Mashwera lasted for 3 days. Only these 10 people have the full knowledge of everything that was discussed during the 3 days. The public knows that it was decided that there will not be one Amir, and there will not be Bayah in Nizamuddin. The next question, was it understood by these 10 elders that this decision would remain until Qiyamat? Note that, Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) reported that during this Mashwera, Maulana Saad mentioned: ‘if you make me Amir, those connected to Maulana Zubair (RA) will be disconnected. And if you make Maulana Zubair Amir, those connected to me would be disconnected. So, we will work with Mashwera’. From this statement, it is quite evident that a factor in the decision is how Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair will work together. In simple observation, we see that during the lifetime of Maulana Zubair (RA), Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair managed the work together, without one of them being Amir over the other, and there was no Bayah in Nizamuddin. Then, we see after the death of Maulana Zubair, Bayah started in Nizamuddin, and Maulana Saad started operating as a single Amir. So, as you and others declare, it appears that Maulana Saad violated the 1995 agreement. However, it remains a fact that Maulana Saad was part of the 10 people in this Mashwera, and his understanding of the mashwera decision and agreement is more authentic and reliable than anyone who was not there. If Maulana Saad, who was part of the mashwera and part of the agreement, understands that “No Amir and No Bayah in Nizamuddin” was intended to remain valid only as long as both Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair were alive, but upon the death of one, the other would be a single Amir and Bayah could restart to this Amir, then his understanding would be more authentic and valid than anyone who was not present in that Mashwera. Some may object that if the agreement was only to continue as long as both were alive, then how come Miyanji Mehrab (RA) didn’t announce this to the audience when he announced the decision. It is common knowledge that the after the death of Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA), the general community of the dawat brothers were very tense, nervous, and emotional regarding the upcoming decision about the future of the work, so you can excuse Miyaji Mehrab (RA) for avoiding discussing openly about what would happen after the death of the young new Faisals/Amirs. Still, many people present in Nizamuddin during the announcement (e.g. Iqbal Hafeez Sahib) report that Miyanji Mehrab mentioned “Filhal” (for now) when he announced the decision, which gently indicates that the decision was not intended to remain until Qiyamat.

         About 2015 Mashwera.
         As I mentioned in my comment, your presentation of the Mashwera that took place in Raiwand is not accurate. Similarly, you mentioned that the story I presented is twisted. Here is the link for the complete audio of the Mashwera that took place. Kindly listen to it. I will gladly fix any point in my story which is not confirmed by the audio and apologize for any mistakes. In fairness, I expect you to do the same if your story doesn’t match the audio.
         https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a3mhRnSUCXXcusOv9OSCAHjJ9VdBfRlk/view?usp=sharing

         About the letter of Maulana Zakariya (RA) mentioned by Maulana Yousuf Motala (RA).
         We all have a great respect for the elders who lived in Nizamuddin for 40 years, and we must trust them when they relate what they have seen in Nizamuddin during those years. However, it is not fair to expect them to have knowledge of the private communications between the very senior elders. Again, Maulana Zakaria (RA), Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) and Maulana Izharul Hassan (RA) are under no compulsion to share everything with everyone in the masjid. The letter of Maulana Zakaria (RA) to Maulana Izhar (RA) was likely known only to them, and to the Kaatib who penned it for Maulana Zakaria (RA). This Kaatib was Maulana Yousuf Motala (RA), who mentioned it during khatam Bukhari of his Madrassa before he passed away, saying he still has the letter somewhere.

         Regarding Tameer Masjid as explained by Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA)
         Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) introduced the 5 Amaal to the world. In the Nizamuddin Mashwera for North America in Dec 1994, he wrote the instructions of the 5 Amaal on paper, and it was distributed to everyone present. This represents the most authentic instructions of the 5 Amaal. The link to the letter is below. As you can see, Hazrat explained the method of Tameer Masjid in detail as part of the daily 2.5 hours, so I can’t find any valid reason for to object to Maulana Saad emphasizing it. Instead, we should be grateful that Maulana Saad understood and is conveying the work.
         https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YMQKKjuzZ7JWnm8UHzezIwdsiPr_U316/view?usp=sharing
         For reference, Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) also explained Tajweed in home Taleem, in the following letter:
         https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lRgEZ8y9RzsxOs6rFlWzQeYc2tqK5Gga/view?usp=sharing

         Summary
         Alhamdulillah, we are all brothers, and we are all searching for the truth. In this search, we need to understand the cause of the diverging views and dig to the authentic sources to reconcile things. We can only maintain honest objectivity if we avoid dismissing alternate views as blindness, ego, or ignorance. I have presented above purely authentic evidence to shed light on key events and hopefully protect us from spreading inaccurate narratives, which instead of helping unite the Ummah, cause further splits. May Allah have mercy on the whole Ummah, and guide us all to what is best. Aameen

         Reply

         1. Waalaykumsalam Brother, I respect your reasoning but again and again, it fails to answer the clear bottom line

            It is FALSE that only 10 people knew what happened in the 1995 Mashwara. There were others in there including Maulana Yaqub, who testified in his letter. The agreement itself was seen by many including Dr. Khalid, Prof Tsnaullah, etc. There was no automatic Amir clause and it was clearly stated that the 10 people Shura which Haji Abdul Wahab was part of was to be the governing body. It is remotely impossible to believe that all the elders including Haji Sab or Maulana Yaqub are lying. M Saad clearly violated the agreement. To start Bay’ah is another thing. Not only was it a violation, he never had the Bayah move approved in Mashwara!

            Regarding the letters you mentioned, you are again bringing up what we call red herrings (non-issues that do not answer the bottom line). Regardless of whatever statements or letters are flying around, the bottom line is that Shura was approved and Maulana Saad as Amir was never approved nor put in Mahswara. He also did not make Mahswara before introducing changes to the Usool which is the main point of contention for our elders.

            The bottom line is that Shura was approved and Maulana Saad as Amir was never approved nor put in Mahswara

            Also to point out, in the letter you posted, there is nothing mentioned specifically about the method of DTI as to how M Saad introduced it. Even if it was detailed, it needs to be approved in Mashwara before bringing it into practice. We can see that Maulana Saad himself signed the 1999 agreement to not change anything without the Alaami Shura’s approval.

            In summary brother, you are finding the smallest excuse to ignore the bottom line (i.e. red herrings). This is textbook brainwashing that deviant Cults use.

            You are finding the smallest excuse to ignore the bottom line. This is called a Red herring which is a textbook brainwashing method

            M Saad has no room to stand in this other than having blind followers. He has been used by the enemies of Islam.

            Also, please don’t forget all the fatwas issued against him.

            Brother, We can only unite upon the truth. Please stop doing what you are doing as it only serves to disunite the effort more. I invite you to the truth. It’s just one person (M Saad) vs all the elders.

            How can you remotely claim that all the elders are lying and Maulana Saad alone is on Haq?

            May Allah SWT open your mind.

            Reply

            1. Assalamo Alaikum Dear Brother,
               First of all, Eid Mubarak to everyone, I hope everyone had a beneficial Ramadan. Once again, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my comments. In Shaa Allah, discussion is healthy, maybe I will learn something new which will satisfy me regarding your comments.
               You are correct that we can only unite upon the truth, and you are also correct that the bottom line is the 1995 mashwera. My only request is that we make sure that our sources when we convey about this mashwera are 100% authentic. A hadith is considered Saheeh (authentic) when it is confirmed that everyone in the chain of narration is 100% reliable. If there is any evidence of weakness in the memory or ability of any narrator, then the hadith becomes weak. You can use a hadith from such a narrator for fazail (virtues), but not for masail (rulings, jurisprudence).
               Commentor Mohamed has shared a document on March 14, 2023 called “Collection of Letters, a.k.a. Majmoo’a Khutoot”, which presents a very accurate collection of information on the subject. On page 18, the exact text of the 1995 Mashwera decision is presented, which I am copying here for convenience.
               ======
               Hazrat Maulana Inamul Hasan sb رحمۃ ہللا علیہ performed Hajj in 1995 along with all the members of ‘SHURA’. On returning from Hajj he passed away on 10 th June 1995. The ‘SHURA’ members gathered in Bangle wali Masjid, Nizamuddin to nominate the next AMEER but they could not agree upon any single name. After three days of long discussions, on 12th June 1995 they unanimously decided the following and Miyanji رحمۃ ہللا علیہ read out this conclusion to the masses. This decision with the signatures of all ten SHURA members is still in record.
               1. The responsibility of patronizing the work will not be on one individual; rather it will be on whole SHURA.
               2. Those who belong to Bangle wali Masjid from among this SHURA they are the members of SHURA of Nizamuddin. They together will take care of work of Nizamuddin. For any further decision in Nizamuddin from amongst these five SUHRA members, following three will work as a FAISAL by sequence.
               A. Maulana Izharul Hasan sb رحمۃ ہللا علیہ
               B. Maulana Zubairul Hasan sb رحمۃ ہللا علیہ
               C. Maulana Sa’ad sb
               3. For time being, the Bai’at shall remain suspended in Nizamuddin
               =====
               I would like to point out a few things.
               Point 2 clearly mentions that out of the 5 Shura members of Nizamuddin, only 3 will be faisal. Now, on your website, you have posted the letter of Dr Khalid Siddiqui. In his letter, he states the following:
               “This Shura carried the work on after the death of Maulana Inaamul Hasan in 1995. Unanimously they decided that the work will continue under the shura and not under one Ameer. Furthermore, it was also decided that 5 members were to carry out the work specific for Nizamuddin Markaz: Miyanji Mehrab Sahib, Maulana Umar Palanpuri, Maulana Izharul Hasan, Maulana Zubairul Hasan, and Maulana Saad. These 5 were decided in rotation as Faisal of Mashwara.”
               So, Dr Khalid Siddiqui mentioned that all 5 shura members are supposed to rotate as Faisal, instead of 3, which is an important mistake and inaccuracy. We respect Dr Khalid Siddiqui for all his efforts and sacrifices, but the above mistake in his letter (and other letters included in Majmoo’a Khutoot) render his narrations as weak (Daeef). We can take fazail of the work of Dawat from him, but not masail of the work of dawat.
               The next thing I want to highlight is the wording of Point 3:
               “For the time being, the Bai’at shall remain suspended in Nizamuddin”. Here, the wording is explicitly stating that the unanimous decision of the shura that they are suspending Bai’at for the time being only (not stopping it permanently), which is confirmation that a time will come when Bai’at will be restarted. The decision does not explicitly say when that time is, but definitely a time will come when the Bai’at will be restarted, and the people involved in this decision know what that time is. From the practice, we can see that the Bai’at restarted after Maulana Zubair (RA) passed away, so the clear conclusion is that Point 3 of the unanimous decision of 1995 was that Bai’at will be suspended for the time being meant that Bai’at will be suspended as long as more than 1 of the Nizamuddin Shura members is alive. When there is only 1 person left, Bai’at will restart. I request you to think about this point without bias, the wording of the decision is clear, and I am not presenting a blind argument to unfairly favour Maulana Saad.
               The next item to point out is that, once we understand and accept the fact that the 1995 decision confirms that Bai’at will restart in the future, this also leads to another conclusion. The practice in Nizamuddin since the time of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA), and maybe even before his time, was that in Nizamuddin, Bai’at was only done to the Amir of Nizamuddin. So, if the decision confirms that after a certain time, Bai’at will start again, then it also means that at that time, Nizamuddin will have 1 Faisal/Amir. Effectively, Point 3 in its full meaning, indicates the automatic Amir clause, that was explicitly included in the agreement and agreed upon unanimously. Maulana Saad was part of the 3 day discussion with the rest of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan’s (RA) Shura, so he would know the interpretation best. Maulana Yaqoob (RA) is our respected elder, but he was not part of those 10 shura members, and he was not in the room discussing with them for 3 days. He heard the final decision from Miyanji Mahrab (RA) like everyone else. The implications of the exact wording of Point 3 are subtle, and it is not blameworthy that Maulana Yaqoob (RA) forgot the “For the time being” preface of Point 3. But again, with all due respect to him, his insistence that there is no Amir in Nizamuddin is not correct and a reflection that he didn’t properly understand the 1995 decision.
               I hope this discussion addresses the bottom line that you were looking for.

               Also, you reminded me about all the fatwas against Maulana Saad. You are correct that there are many Ulema who issued fatwas against him. They discuss points which he mentioned in his bayan. You should also know that many great Ulema support him. I personally visited Maulana Rabay Nadwi (RA) in 2017 in Nadwatul-Ulema in Lucknow, India. He told me that after the first rujoo, there should be no issue against Maulana Saad. I interviewed many senior Ulema at Nadwa, they all have no issues with Maulana Saad, and don’t agree with the fatwas against him. Many other high profile Ulema are supporting Maulana Saad, and disagree with the fatwas. Finally, Maulana Arshad Madani, Principle of Deoband, told Maulana Saad the following: “You are the Amir of the jamat.. Who can challenge your Imarat? Whether anyone calls you Amir with their tongue or not, you are the Amir”. I have this recording also. So, maybe Maulana Arshad Madani doesn’t know about these fatwas, or maybe these fatwas aren’t relevant to the imarat discussion according to him. I’m sure nobody would think that Maulana Arshad Madani a blind follower, so maybe we should be consider that there is more to this subject which we don’t understand.

            2. Wa’alaikumsalam,

               First of all, I am sorry to say this, but you are very confused. I can only conclude that this was how you were brainwashed.

               You have to resort to lengthy explanations, in order to divert the clear bottom line which could not be answered

               This brainwashing technique is called a Red-herring. I prefer to ignore them all but for the sake of other readers, I will address your points here:

               1. It is not true that Dr Khalid Siddiqui made a mistake. Dr Khalid was referring to the 1996 Resolution, which expanded the 3 Shuras of Nizamuddin to 5
               2. The 1995 agreement states that Bay’ah was to be ceased in Nizamuddin. Regardless of whether it is temporary or not, M Saad NEVER obtained Shura’s approval to restart Bay’at in Nizamuddin. This is the clear violation, and I don’t understand why you can’t see this.
                  

                  I am surprised that you as an old worker do not understand the importance of following Mashwara!

               3. I doubt the validity and context of Ml Arshad Madani’s statement. Regardless, he is not in the Shura of Tabligh. His statement does not make M Saad Ameer. You are just confusing yourself more.

               In summary, you are going in circles trying to find the weakest argument to favour M Saad

               The bottom line is that M Saad was never approved to be Ameer by the Shura. Whatever hadith on the importance of obeying Ameer does not apply here. This diversion technique only serves to misdirect/brainwash the weak-minded

               Similarly, another bottom line is the many fatwas issued on Maulana Saad as a Deviant
               Alhamdulillah, thanks to these Fatwas, Allah SWT has made it easy for simple-minded people to distinguish between Haq and Baatil.
               Yes, there are a few Ulema that supports M Saad, but we are talking about the majority here.

               Also, I do notice that you guys are sometimes confused between Ulemas that support M Saad vs those who prefer not saying anything. Just because some Ulema visited M Saad, does not render them supporting M Saad, they are just neutral. There are extremely few Institutions that have openly written fatwas in favor of Maulana Saad.

               You guys are confused between Ulemas that ‘support M Saad’ vs Ulemas that are ‘neutral / not saying anything’

               Anyway, Eid Mubarak to you too. I hope you are in the best of health. From your IP address, I can presume you are from Canada and it must be getting warmer there at the moment. I do enjoy this discussion. InshaAllah I too hope to learn something from you. As of now, I’m just seeing weak inductive arguments, which is why you have to resort to lengthy explanations. Please keep it short and give a clear bottom line or compelling reason to support M Saad and denounce all the other elders.

               I make Du’a that Allah SWT bring you to the correct path. Why waste our time and energy propagating a fitna and causing further disunity to Tabligh?

            3. Assalamo Alaikum Br Tjadmin,
               Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my comments, and forgive me for the length. I’ll try to keep it short, I just have a few more thoughts to share, if you permit. It is my weakness that my answers/points were not acceptable to address your questions. Actually, you are right that I am confused about the position you are presenting. I just have one question, which if you can answer, my confusion would be removed, and I would content my heart about your position.
               You mention that when Maulana Saad was never approved by the Shura as Ameer of Nizamuddin, nor to restart the Bai’ah in 2014. I would just like you to give me a list of the names of the people of the Shura who he should have consulted, and who should have approved this move.
               JazakAllah

            4. Waalaikumsalam WRT,

               As an old worker yourself, do you not understand the concept of doing things with Mashwara? The Shura was still valid as Hj Abdul Wahab Sab was still alive. Did Ali RA revolt against the Shura when Usman RA was appointed Ameer?

               • First key point is that M Saad was never appointed as Ameer in any Mashwara with Hj Sab
               • Second key point is the 1995 Agreement which M Saad signed. M Saad treacherously violated it.

               2 Key points: M Saad was never appointed as Ameer in any Mashwara with Hj Sab; and M Saad treacherously violated the 1995 agreement

               These are the key aspects. The other aspect looks at the credibility of M Saad if he was to be Ameer, such as the fatwas, not spending time in Jamaat, violence, lack of tarbiyyah (his Childish Strike in 2015). Almost all senior elders (Ml Ibrahim, Ml Yaaqub, Khalid, etc) do not support him. All these are redflags if he were to lead the Jamaat.

               The way you have been brainwashed is by looking at side issues while ignoring the bottom line. When M Saad goes against Mashwara, you will find the slightest reason to justify him. Yet for him, he just does things without Mashwara.

               Whenever M Saad goes against Mashwara, you will find the slightest reason to justify him

               Anyway, I sincerely apologize if I have hurt you in any way. At the end of the day, despite the differences, we are still Muslim Brothers. I make dua that you stop doing what you are doing as it is only propagating Fitna and disuniting Tabligh.

            5. Assalamo Alaikum Br Tjadmin
               Thank you for taking time to respond. I read your answers very carefully multiple times but must admit that your responses still don’t address my questions. We all understand that this work requires mashwera. You mentioned 2 key points, but I still have questions/confusions regarding it. Please follow my explanation, and tell me where I am wrong.
               First of all, the 1995 Mashwera decided that the responsibility of the work globally will be on the Shura of 10 people. It also decided that the Shura in Nizamuddin would be 5 people, and they will take care of the work of Nizamuddin together. For any further decision in Nizamuddin, 3 among these 5 will work a faisal by sequence.
               So, there are 2 levels being addressed: global level, and Nizamuddin Level. At the global level, 10 people were responsible. They rotated being faisal at for mashweras in global gatherings. At the Nizamuddin level, there was a shura of 5 people, of whom 3 were faisals. They rotated being faisal for mashweras in Nizamuddin.
               So, in 1995, on a global level, there were 10 responsibles, and if they rotated being faisal, then each of these 10 responsibles were faisal 10% of the time.
               In Nizamuddin, in 1995, Maulana Izhar, Maulana Zubair, and Maulana Saad, were rotating faisal, so each was faisal 33% of the time.
               By 1999, 5 of the 10 Shura members had passed away. The remaining 5 continued to operate on the same pattern. So, globally, each of the 5 shura members were responsible faisal 20% of the time, and in Nizamuddin, only 2 members (who are both faisals) remained, so Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad were each responsible faisal 50% of the time. The entire world is witness to how Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair managed the work in Nizamuddin together all those years.
               By 2005, Mufti Zainul Abideen and Bhai Afzal passed away, so there remained 3 shura members on a global level, and 2 at the Nizamuddin level. From 2005 to 2014, globally, the 3 were each responsible faisal 33% of the time, and at Nizamuddin, Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair were responsible faisal 50% of the time. These 3 shura members continued on this pattern for 9 years, until Maulana Zubair passed away, without ever deciding any change to this pattern.
               So, upon the death of Maulana Zubair in 2014, the pattern of this shura which was followed since the 1995 decision would naturally have the following result: Globally, Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) and Maulana Saad are responsible 50% each, and at the Nizamuddin level, as the only remaining Nizamuddin shura member and faisal alive, Maulana Saad is responsible 100%.
               Note: Maulana Saad never claimed to be Amir over Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA). In the famous audio which you have on your website about Maulana Saad claiming to be Amir, the context is that the workers addressing him were asking about Shura of Nizamuddin, and Amir of Nizamuddin. Maulana Saad told them that he is the Amir of Nizamuddin (which he is, after the death of Maulana Zubair, as per the 1995 decision and the pattern followed by the shura ever since).
               So, to me, both of your key points are not correct. Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) and the rest of the 10 Shura of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) unanimously approved Maulana Saad to be one of 3 faisals of Nizamuddin. When the other 2 faisals passed away, there is 1 faisal left, what is this faisal supposed to do?
               Also, I asked you about who Maulana Saad should have consulted before starting Bayah in Nizamuddin. Remember, this is a point of Nizamuddin, not a global point. Did Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) need to get approval from Maulana Saad for points related only to Raiwand? If not, then same would apply for Maulana Saad needing approval from Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) for points related to Nizamuddin. Even then, the 1995 decision of entire Shura of 10 mentioned that the suspension of Bayah in Nizamuddin was temporary, leaving the door open for it to be restarted in the future.
               So, to summarize, I am not trying to unfairly justify Maulana Saad’s position, and I am not looking at side issues. To me, Maulana Saad’s position is the natural way to fulfill the 1995 decision, after the death of Maulana Zubair (RA). I am discussing with you in good faith, trying to understand your position. Until now, nothing you have presented has convinced me that Maulana Saad violated the 1995 decision. Also, you mention the credibility of Maulana Saad being Amir. Only Allah knows everyone’s inner qualities, but if the 10 Shura of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) unanimously agreed in 1995 that Maulana Saad should be 1 of 3 faisals of Nizamuddin, then for any of us to debate his credibility is to challenge/question the unanimous decision of the Shura of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA). I also apologize if what I am saying is hurting anyone, but my intention is to either understand why I am wrong in supporting Maulana Saad, or to help clarify misconceptions which are causing people to unfairly go against him. May Allah guide us to what is right, and protect us from all sides. Aameen

            6. Waalaikumsalam Br, I’d like to repeat 3 simple reasons why we should leave M Saad. You have a complicated mind but simple minded people can easily see it.
               

               1. Many established Darul Ulooms (Not individual Ulemas) have issued Fatwas on M Saad being out of Ahlus Sunnah
               2. Many seniors elders including Haji Sab have issued statements against him.
               3. The violence that he orchestrated in Nizamuddin sealing any hopes of peaceful mediation.

               You claim that M Saad did not violate the 1995 agreement since he is the natural Ameer of (ONLY) Nizamuddin. Here’s the problem, Haji Sab, a signatory of the agreement did not approve what M Saad did and made claims of his violation. Many other elders too. How can you remotely claim that all elders are wrong and M Saad alone is right on this?

               You also claim that M Saad never said he is Ameer while we have recorded proof for it. Now let’s assume what you say is right i.e. M Saad NEVER claim himself as Ameer of the Ummah or Ameer of Dawa. He is only the Ameer of Nizamuddin. Raiwind should not be meddling with the affairs of Nizamuddin. My question:

               If you claim he is not the Ameer of Dawa, then why follow him in the first place?

               You have clearly defeated your main premise => M Saad is the rightful Ameer and we must follow him no matter what! (Fatwas, elders statements, etc).

               Please, I humbly request you. Think! and ask Allah SWT. It’s okay to be wrong sometimes. It’s okay to lose sometimes. We are human beings, we make mistakes. Jannah is not cheap and to humble oneself to the truth is a great sacrifice.

               Anyway, I appreciate your calm demeanor and apologize if I offend you in any way. I hope I have made it clear to you. At the end of the day, we are all Muslim brothers. May Allah SWT guide us all.

         2. Jzkk brother MH for your comment. Appreciate MA’s reply as well.

            Brother MH was mostly looking at the credibility angle. I.e. is M Saad fit to be Ameer. On that angle, I would like to add that M Saad has not spent even 40 days in the Path of Allah. This is according to Haji Abdul Wahab Sab, a source that we all can’t deny. Proof here.

            M Saad has not spent even 40 days in the Path of Allah

            I’m sure Brother MA will have an argument for this. He enjoys these tangents as it derails the bottom line. This is how they brainwash people. Without shame, they use stories of the Sahaba to fit their perversions.

            The bottom line is, M Saad was never approved by the Shura as Ameer. Until now, I have not heard a compelling argument for this.

            Please forgive me if my tone is a little harsh. I am worse than you in many ways. It is just that in this context, I hope you can evaluate yourself.
            Ask yourself,

            Why spend all your energy to propagate a Fitna and cause disunity to Tabligh?

            InshaAllah, let’s all make Du’a

            Reply

            1. Assalamo Alaikum,
               Once again, thank you for taking the time to respond. I hope my explanation of why the natural Ameer of Nizamuddin, based on the natural implementation of the 1995 mashwera, at least gives you the compelling argument on this subject. So, after the death of Maulana Zubair (RA), Maulana Saad was the only Faisal of Nizamuddin. On a global level, Haji Abdul Wahab (RA) and Maulana Saad were each 50% responsible. So, from your response, I understand that even if you agree with me about this, we should leave Maulana Saad for the 3 simple reasons you mentioned. I reviewed your reasons, and I don’t believe any of the reasons are valid, as I will explain below. Again, if I am wrong in anything, please correct me.

               Wa’alaikumsalam Brother MA. May this reply find you in good health. As your comment is lengthy this time, we think it’s best that we reply to your comments directly here in RED. Jazakallah Khair for taking your time to write for us.

               Regarding the Fatwas

               You mentioned that the Darul Uloom fatwas say Maulana Saad is out of Ahlus Sunnah. Once again, since my first comment to you, my request to you was to keep your points 100% authentic to the original sources. You need to be more particular about this if you want to maintain credibility.From the English translation of the Deoband Fatwa on your website, the following is the exact wording:
               “Moulana Muhammed Saad Saheb Khandhelwi Saheb, due to a lack of knowledge has strayed from the path of the majority of the Ulema of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa’ah in his ideologies and his explanation of the Qur’an and Hadeeth, which is undoubtedly the path of deviation.”

               [TJAdmin] We would like to start our reply by highlighting the fact that you are still doing the classical red herring strategy. You are finding small mistakes (such as in terminologies) to distract people from the clear bottom line. The bottom line is that the Ulema have raised concerns about him. They have clearly told us not to propagate his ideology, thus so we should not follow him. It’s as simple as that.

               The meaning of ASWJ as understood by our Ulema are those who are under the banner of the Ashari/Maturidi & 4 schools of thought. This forms the bulk of the Ulema of the Ummah such as Deoband, Al-Azhar, our Madaris in Indonesia, etc. As mentioned in Deoband’s latest fatwa 2023, M Saad has strayed from this path.

               So, Maulana Saad’s views are different than the majority of the Ulema. It does not say that he is out of Ahlus Sunnah, like you mentioned. Scholars of Deoband, when interviewed, mention that they don’t agree with his views, but he is not out of Ahlus Sunnah.

               [TJAdmin] So you agree that they disagree with him. Isn’t that the clear bottom line? Also, we are talking about Fatwas from prestigious and unbiased Darul Iftas. Individual scholars will have opinions on many things, but it is not an Ijma (a consensus). Deoband produces thousands of Scholars yearly. A single statement from one of these scholars do not nullify the majority.

               So, while the majority of the scholars have different interpretations of the Quran and Hadith than Maulana Saad, still, many big scholars agree with his views.

               [TJAdmin] There are big religious people who support Trump or Modi. Do they agree 100% with Trump or Modi?. There are different levels of support. Some people may accomodate or visit him or be in good terms with him. This does not mean they agree with him. The big scholars who strongly agreed with Saad (such as Maulana Yusuf Motala) did so at the early stages of the Ikhtilaaf before things became apparent. Most of them have passed away by then.

               You have to also take into account the large number of Ulema who previously supported M Saad but are now distancing away from him. Why do you think this is happening? This awakening is seen everywhere in the world. The opposite however, does not happen, almost zero. As of today, we have collected 40+ fatwas on M Saad

               So, it is not a question of being out of Ahlus Sunnah, it is a question of interpretation of Quran and Hadith different than the majority. Maulana Saad was ready to repeatedly make rujoo.

               [TJAdmin] No, M Saad does not want to do a proper Rujoo. If he did Rujoo, why on earth was the recent 2023 Fatwa issued on him? Please read his Rujoo saga which clearly shows his reluctance to do a proper Rujoo. Only Allah SWT knows why. From what we are seeing, he simply thinks he is bigger than Deoband and does not want to admit his mistake. Power and fame corrupts people!

               Although it is a mute point now, since Maulana Saad made rujoo on the discussion of Musa (AS), for reference, please note the following extract of the Tafseer of Surah Taha in Ma’ariful Quran by Mufti Muhammad Shafi (RA) (revised by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani).

               “When Sayyidna Musa (AS) appeared before Divine Presence, Allah questioned him as to why he had hastened ahead of his people. The obvious purpose of the question was to inform Sayyidna Musa (AS) of the mischief into which his people had fallen while he himself, unaware of what had happened in his absence, was expecting their arrival at the Tur (ibn Kathir). On the other hand, according to Ruh ul Ma’ani, the question contained an implied rebuke to Sayyidna Musa (AS) on his haste which deprived his people of his supervision and enabled Samiri to mislead them. His position as a prophet made it incumbent on him to stay with his people and keep a watchful eye on them and their activities. The learned commentator has further observed that this question implied an indication that a leader should remain behind his people when travelling with them, as Allah Ta’ala had ordered Lut (AS) to bring his people out of the city and to remain at their back (Quran 15:65).” (Ma’ariful Quran, volume 6, p. 143 – Maktaba-e-Darul –‘Uloom Karachi)

               [TJAdmin] M Saad’s only Rujoo was on his statement with regards to Musa (AS). However, M Saad still continued to make controversial statements after that. We have collected a list of M Saad’s controversial statements even after Rujoo. Also, bear in mind, the main concern of the Ulema is the ideological views he is spreading, not just his mere speeches. For us workers of Tabligh, this is ultimately destroying Tabligh! How can we allow something like this to continue? How can we separate ourselves from the Ulema?

               Also, although today everyone praises Maulana Ilyas (RA) and Maulana Yousuf (RA), according to Maulana Saeed Ahmad Khan Sahib (RA), a large number of Ulema were against Maulana Ilyas (RA) and Maulana Yousuf (RA) for similar reasons as we see today. Please refer to this letter of Maulana Saeed Ahmad Khan (RA) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GVI1QmWSaVmBHw5b893lCOlYQF3kq-qY&usp=drive_fs

               [TJAdmin] This statement really shows your twisted logic! Are you saying that if the Ulema of ASWJ is against one person’s ideology, that person is thus upon Haq? This is ridiculous to the core! As for Maulana Ilyas, the Ulema at that time had issues with the effectiveness of his method, not whether it is Haram or Halal!

               Our elders were so careful to ensure this effort was strictly in line with Sharia. Strict usools were put in place. For example, we are not allowed to read translated hadith without explanations in public. This is why Fadhail A’maal was the only approved book for us to read (See 3 reasons not to read Muntakhab Ahadith). The only time we do so is during Hayatus Sahaba, which can only be read by an Ulema or an Arab native who reads the Arabic Text, not translations! By straying away from the path of ASWJ, this effort will no longer be in the Manhaj as it was before

               Finally, the discussion of the Fatwas is a scholarly issue, it is not related to the question of Tabligh jamat leadership. If you do want to use Deoband’s views in the Amarat vs Shura discussion, then take note of Maulana Arshad Madani’s position on this subject.https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n7p-X_lGgWKn5xygEqYr8BmC1wYF6Ckl&usp=drive_fs
               Maulana Arshad Madani clearly states that in his view, Maulana Saad is the Amir of the effort of Tabligh.

               [TJAdmin] What Maulana Arshad Madani means is that he is the leader of his offshoot group of Tabligh, who has deviated from the original. He is not referring to the entire Jamaat. Also, we don’t select Ameer based on Maulana Arshad Madani’s statement. Ameer is selected through Mashwara!

               So, in light of the above, the statements of the Darul-Ulooms don’t justify turning against Maulana Saad.

               [TJAdmin] You must be seriously joking to make such an absurd conclusion. Discussions were scholarly matters but Fatwas are for public consumption. It is for the public to act upon it. They have clearly stated for us not to follow or propagate M Saad’s views.

               Regarding Statement of Senior Elders. Authentic Report of Haji Abdul Wahab (RA)

               As I explained before, after the death of Maulana Zubair (RA), Haji Abdul Wahad (RA) and Maulana Saad were the 2 responsible people for the effort of dawat on a global level. So Haji Sahib’s (RA) position is very important. Once again, since my first comment on your website, I have been requesting for authentic information. Unfortunately, the information that you and others are circulating about Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib’s (RA) position is not accurate. I will reiterate the facts here:

               November 2015 Raiwand Ijtema.

               A Mashwera was held with Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib, Maulana Saad Sahib, and elders from the countries about making a Shura. In this Mashwera, Haji Sahib never said anything about Alami Shura. He mentioned the Shura of Nizamuddin, which Maulana Saad agreed to, and he created in December 2015. Other elders were asking about making an Alami Shura, but Haji Sahib never accepted this. Again, here is the full audio of that Mashwera which confirms the above. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a3mhRnSUCXXcusOv9OSCAHjJ9VdBfRlk&usp=drive_fs

               [TJAdmin] Where is it in the Audio that Haji Sabd disagreed with the Shura? You are clearly making grand conclusions here. He was the one that made the Faisal (decision) on the Shura. Everyone is obeying this Mashwara. The problem with M Saad is that he does not want to obey Mashwara. M Saad was so upset with the 2015 Mashwara decision that he closed down Nizamuddin for several days in protest. Such behavior is nothing more than a childish tantrum!

               After this Mashwera, in a major breach of trust with Haji Sahib, Maulana Saad, and the workers of the world, the elders of India and Pakistan sat together privately and drafted a letter about a new Alami Shura, and visited Haji Sahib separately and said that everyone is agreed on this letter, he should sign it. So, trusting these people, Haji Sahib (RA) made dua and signed the letter. When later asked by people if he made a shura, he denied making a shura, and said he signed it because everyone was agreed on it.

               [TJAdmin] What are you talking about? You are again making a false claim that Haji Sab denied making a Shura when in fact he was the Faisal(decision maker). Also, Haji Sab was 93 years old at that time. Do you expect him to be the one writing the letter himself?

               The selected members of the additional Shura were not anyone unknown. They were people who were the most known in the work in their respective countries, such as Maulana Ibrahim Dewla, Maulana Yaqub, etc. Using this rule, Wasiful Islam had to be unfortunately included as well as he was well known senior elder of Bangladesh. It was unfortunate but Alhamdulillah, Allah SWT took him out of the Shura

               Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib answering Aabir Rashid’s question:

               Maulana Faheem: Haji Sahib, regarding the letter which is going everywhere, Aabir Rashid thinks you didn’t sign the letter, it is a fake signature.
               Aabir Rashid: No, I was asking that did you make the Shura?
               Maulana Faheem: well, if Haji Sahib signed it, then…. (interrupted)
               Haji Sahib: this was all made by these people. They came to me, so I said “recite 101 times Allahuma-khirlee wakhtarlee”. Everyone is agreed on something, so I am also agreed with it.

               https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kHbgXnYrhvg_uzpVfpuOAxnxttxL9Bct&usp=drive_fs

               [TJAdmin] How on earth do you conclude Haji Sab was forced to sign the letter from this conversation? You have really lost all credibility here and trying to shoot anything to satisfy yourself. What Haji Sab means is that he works with consensus and he agrees to it. The bottom line is that he was the Faisal (decision maker) and the main elder who stood up againt M Saad from the Shura. This shows that he endorses the Shura whole heartedly. SubhanAllah, you are really trying to fit an elephant into a tiny hole here!

               Wasiful Islam (Shura of Bangladesh) discussion with Haji Sahib about him making a Shura

               “Br Farooq (Banglore) told us that Hazrat Ji’s shura had 10 people, only 2 are left, it should be completed, so each one should write 10 names. … (Maulana Saad explained the currently, Nizamuddin Jamat, Raiwant Jamat and Kakrail jamat meet regularly in Tongi, and Raiwand and Hajj every 2 years, we take all the important points on those occasions. This is good” Then, some people made noise, so the mashwera (about making a shura) was not completed. The next day, they took 3 of us separately, and told us that a shura has been made, your 3 names are there also, please sign it. I asked to see it, so he showed me. I asked who chose these names, they told me ever name was selected by Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib. So, why didn’t Maulana Saad sign? Oh, we’ll get it from him. So, I had some doubts, so I said we won’t sign it right now, we are only 3-4 here, the rest of our shura is in Bangladesh. So, we won’t do this now. After 2 days was our return, I went to see Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib, and asked him: “Hazrat, did you make a Shura?” “No, I didn’ t make any shura”. The witness were 4 of our shura brothers were there, and Dr Nadeem Ashraf, and Maulana Faheem. So, we left. After a while, Maulana Saad visited Haji Abdul Wahab, and when he came back, and took the mic and said that I just went to Haji Sahib and asked him: “Did you make a Shura?” He responded: “I didn’t make any shura”. So, the way the work was going, it will continue to go. We don’t have any Alami Shura, we have Alami Mashwera. After returning 2-3 days later, we saw the letter was distributed in the whole world. The next year, when we went to Raiwand, then I went to Haji Sahib and I asked him: “Haji Sahib, how did you promote this letter? He said, some brothers came to me, and said we are all united on this, so please sign this. – previously, these people told me that Haji Sahib selected all the names. Here, Haji Sahib is saying that these people came and said that we are united on this, so please sign it. Whereas, our entire shura of Bangladesh that was present, nobody asked us. Many old worker, responsible of Raiwand were not asked, Bakht Muneer told me himself. So then I said: Haji Sahib, it has been written by you, it has your signature, that for any important matter that you have to do in Raiwand or Nizamuddin, then you need everyone’s agreement. When Maulana Saad didn’t agree with this, how could you send it? Haji Sahib (RA) stayed quiet for a very long time, then he told me, lets make Mashwera again. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kSZ_Z-IuCMl5oPB9wMmztN3v11ISxsPJ&usp=drive_fs

               So, the general explanation of the 2015 Raiwand mashwera as presented by you and others is not accurate, and a breach of trust with the workers of the world.

               [TJAdmin] Here, you are narrating a distorted story from a controversial person. Then, you accuse us of lying as our history is not in line with this controversial man! We have quoted our sources and most of our sources are from the elders that both of us agree upon (their credibility). Both of us respect Maulana Ibrahim, Maulana Yaaqub, Haji Sab, etc. Your source of information is Wasiful Islam, a very controversial figure. He has been accused of stealing Markaz money. Alhamdulillah, if anything this Tablighi Jamaat Split has cleansed this effort from people like him worldwide.

               2016 Raiwand Ijtema

               At the end of the 2016 Raiwand Ijtema, Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) collected all the old workers in the Haveli, and address them. He told them to all go back to Nizamuddin, and follow whatever is decided there in Mashwera:
               “Do you understand? The thing is this that All of you should go to Nizamuddin, and there, make dua to Allah Pak, and when you get there, whatever is decided there by Mashwera, keep on doing that. And keep making dua, Oh Allah, keeping the entire humanity in front, whatever I’m supposed to do, please put that in my heart. Ok?”
               https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kN5FgYlDbjHnGUSZTzQG0qQVV7uukKuu&usp=drive_fs
               Maulana Abdur Rahman (Mumbai) confirms that Haji Sahib said this at the end of 2016 Ijtema, and explains how the Alami Shura reacted to it (47 minute mark).
               https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n7p-X_lGgWKn5xygEqYr8BmC1wYF6Ckl&usp=drive_fs

               [TJAdmin] My dear MA bhai! Why do you have to resort to this? You only cut half of the audio and ignore the rest! This is text book distortion! Personally, we don’t think you are deliberately doing this cause you seem like a decent person. We think you have been told a lie, and due to your affiliation you accept it.

               The reality is, Haji Sab was making a reference to the people of Nizamuddin that were there, not everyone in the gathering. Your translation is also misleading.

               This is his full statement from the wider Audio:

               No Amiraat will work. What has been agreed upon is what we will do. Yesterday, the people of Nizamuddin came and I spoke to them. If in Saad’s desire there is this thing “I am amir”, “I am a someone”, and everyone makes Bay’ah to him, even so, no ‘car’ will move (a metaphor referring that it will not work). What has been agreed upon is what will happen. I have told the people of Nizamuddin: The members of the Mashwara came to me and after discussing with them, I am in agreement with them. When there were problems from various countries, Maulana Yusuf told me, my Shura members are not here, some are in Mecca and some are in Pakistan. The decision will only be made when everyone gathers. We thus sat in a Mashwara after the demise of Maulana Inamul Hasan. Saad said that if I am appointed as Amir, those who want Maulana Zubayr will disconnect themselves (from this effort). If Maulana Zubayr is made amir, those who want me will disconnect themselves (from this effort). Therefore this effort must run by Mashwara and Bay’ah will not occur there. This matter has been agreed upon. Do you understand? Stop acting big and stop this Bay’ah thing. He (interpreter’s referring to Haji Abdul Wahab) told them “All of you (referring to the People of Nizamuddin) should go (back) to Nizamuddin, and there, make dua to Allah Pak, and when you get there, whatever that has been decided by Mashwara, continue on that. And keep making Du’a. Ya Allah, keeping the entire humanity in front, whatever I’m supposed to do, please put that in my heart!”

               About the violence in Nizamuddin

               First of all, we are all very sad that such an incident took place. The next day, Maulana Saad mentioned from the Mimbar that the people involved have nothing to do with him, or with Nizamuddin. He explains this to others as well. On your website, you try to prove that he was responsible.
               However, you can ask anyone with knowledge of Islamic law, or secular law, if your reasons are not enough to declare someone as guilty of the crime. You will see that he should be considered innocent, until many conditions are fulfilled, which you have not fulfilled. It is the right of a Muslim to believe him and accept his excuse. Also, Allah instructs us to avoid many suspicions, for indeed, some suspicions are sinful.

               [TJAdmin] If every criminal in this world simply admits that he did it, then there is no need for courts or investigations. We are presenting strong testimonies from the likes of Maulana Ibrahim Dewla and Maulana Ahmad Laat (which you yourself admit their credibility). They testified M Saad’s prone to violence. Yes, M Saad denied his involvement. But do you know that he also changed his story? First he denied it, then since things don’t seem to add up, his story changed to an “operation gone wrong”. He also lied to the police claiming that the gangster were local residents. In court, such a lie could incriminate him as it reveals his true motives. The fact that such an incident happened, and many were beaten by M Saad’s supporters is enough of a tragedy. How blind are you not to see this and continue to support the group who is destorying Tabligh?

               Regarding the 1995 Agreement.

               As discussed above, after the death of Maulana Zubair, Maulana Saad remains the only faisal of Nizamuddin, and 1 of 2 faisals of the world. Yes, people complained to Haji Sahib that Maulana Saad is claiming himself as Amir… these people presented the picture (like you presented it), as if Maulana Saad goes around announcing his Imarat all the time to show off. This is not a fair picture of the situation. So, Haji Sahib was mentioned that he was worried that if Kibr came into Maulana Saad. The true circumstance of the audio that Maulana Saad mentioned he is Amir is that people asked him a question on this subject, and he answered. They got angry, so he got angry. In the 2015 Raiwand Mashwara (audio included above), this point came up, and Maulana Saad explained that the other person made him angry, so he responded in anger. It is only fair to show the whole picture.

               Other than the above comment from Haji Sahib, I don’t see anywhere that Haji Sahib said that Maulana Saad violated the 1995 agreement. It is true that Dr Khalid Siddiqui claims that Maulana Saad violated the 1995 agreement. However, he gravely misquoted the decision of 1995 in his letter. You defended him by claiming that he must have been referring to the 1996 decision. Even if that was his intention, to be considered authentic and reliable, he should have mentioned 1996 in his letter. He mentioned 1995 but misquoted the decision of 1996. This is enough to render his narrations unreliable. In fact, accepting as facts details from such a person can be a big cause for confusion and division in the Ummah. I have found many other issues with other letters he has written.

               You are again using this red herring strategy to divert the clear bottom line. You are really confused MA bhai! You found one small mistake (which I don’t think it is) in the way Dr Khalid Siddiqui simplified the story, thus so you render his entire claim as false. Dr Khalid clearly said there were 5 faisals, which was true after 1996. Never did he explicitly say the 5 faisals were decided in 1995. The fact that you have to go deep into this shows that you are trying to find the slightest weakness to dismiss an entire event,

               Anyway bhai, whether it is 3, 5 or 10 people in the Shura, the bottom line is M Saad was never approved in Mashwara to be Ameer. The Mashwara decision was to have a Shura. The 1995 agreement has been cited by many, not just Dr Khalid (See: Tablighi Markas Hadhrat Nizhamuddin Kuch Haqaiq, Maulana Yaqub’s letter)

               In conclusion, my premise is that any decision regarding the global leadership of the work of Dawat can only be done by Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib and Maulana Saad Sahib together. No decision of a global nature can be final until they both accept it. These are the official responsible of work of Dawat. The Alami Shura presented in 2015 was not made by either of them. If Maulana Saad didn’t agree to it, then it can’t be considered official in Tabligh, even if it is the opinion of everyone else. In Mashwera, everyone will present something and have an opinion, but it is not official until the faisal decides it in a formal mashwera.

               This is the only thing we agree with you. Only when a Faisal is made does a matter becomes official. Ironically, this puts M Saad not the Ameer as he was never approved in Mashwara. The Shura however was clearly approved by Haji Sab as the Faisal of the 2015 Mashwara. M Saad himself allowed him to be the Faisal. The Shura addition was also a natural move since many Shura members have passed away.

               It is against adab of mashwera to insist on our opinions, to make mashwera before mashwera, and mashwera after mashwera. The Alami Shura “decision” was done outside any mashwera involving Haji Sahib and Maulana Saad, which a breach of trust with the work. The only decision which was made in 2015 was that Nizamuddin should have a shura, which Maulana Saad made in December 2015, in front of all the workers of India during the all India Mashwera that happens every 3 months. This was the official decision, which despite the conflicts afterwards, remains valid.

               What are you talking about here? A decision was clearly made and a letter was also signed. M Saad as Ameer was never approved in the Mashwara. Intiating Bay’ah too was never approved. M Saad’s claims are so absurd. And people like you are wasting all their energy dividing Tabligh into two just to fulfill the ambition of one man to be the Ameer at all costs, even at the cost of destroying the global work of Da’wa. May Allah Save us all.

               So, while I respect all of the elders, and I respect your efforts, I don’t find your arguments enough to convince me that we should leave Maulana Saad and Nizamuddin, and I hope you reconsider.

               Please brother, we humbly ask you to unite back with the truth. What are you doing? Please!!! THINK!! In Deoband’s latest Fatwa 2023, they clearly stated that M Saad’s supporters (like yourself) will be answerable to Allah SWT. Are you not afraid? Do you not fear Allah? Just admit you made a mistake! That’s all you need to do. Some of us here (From Indonesia/Malaysia) had to go through this, to put down our pride and accept the truth. You are in Canada and you know many Non-muslims who convert to Islam. Imagine how much they have to suffer to accept the truth. You too can do something similar in this context.

               Lets make dua Allah (SWT) guides us all to what is best for our dunya and Akhira, and best for the whole Ummat. Aameen.

               Agreed brother, lets make Du’a. We end out reply with a sincere apology if we have hurt you in any way. May Allah SWT guide us all. Ameen.

            2. Waalaikumsalam! Good to hear from you MA Bhai! and thanks for the reply. It’s a bit lengthy and we have corrected the stylings to make it more readable. We have answered you comment directly in RED

               In the future, please keep it short.

               Jazakallah Khair

            3. Assalamo Alaikum Br TjAdmin,
               I hope you and the team are doing well. My apologies for the long gap in response. I got busy in many things, but always was intending to continue the discussion.
               To recap the discussion in our previous comment.
               Fatwa of Deoband.
               I understand the weight of the Deoband fatwa, as you are explaining. I do have more to say on it, but that can be a separate time/place. Despite all this, the link I shared about Maulana Arshad Madani (DB) saying Maulana Saad is Amir, whether anyone accepts or not. He mentions that he has no issue with anyone. He says the following:
               “The people of Shura came, they invited me, and told me their views. When I listened to them, I spoke with Maulana Saad. I told him: In reality, the jamat is yours, you are the Amir, your great grand father made the jamat, your grand father worked for the jamat until his last breath, spread the light of the jamat in the whole world. After that, you are sitting there, who can challenge your Amarat? Whether anybody calls you Amir with their tongue or not, you are the Amir. Now these people, who have given their up lives for the jamat, since the time of your grandfather, Maulana Yousuf (RA), you say that he is your teacher, and the teacher of your father, so, I’m saying that baba, come down one step, embrace them, and make them sit, all the problems will be solved. Whether anyone calls you Amir or not, you are the Amir… “
               So, please explain how you interpret this that he is referring to the offshoot group, which deviated from the original? It seems very obvious to me that he means Maulana Saad is the Amir of the whole jamat, unless you can show me where he specifies otherwise. But I agree with you, we don’t select or remove an Amir based on Maulana Arshad Madani’s statements, Amir is decided by the Mashwera of the jamat. By the same token, we don’t select or remove an Amir due to statements/fatwas of Deoband either. Again, as I explained above, in 1995, Maulana Saad, Maulana Zubair and Maulana Izhar were appointed as the 3 Faisals of Nizamuddin, while Globally the 10 Shura of Hazrat Ji (RA) were responsible. The natural conclusion of 1995 mashwera after the death of Maulana Zubair, on a GLOBAL LEVEL, there is a Shura of 2 people responsible for the world, namely Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahib (DB). And IN NIZAMUDDIN, Maulana Saad Sahib is the Amir, and in PAKISTAN, Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib is the Amir. In fact, to me, anyone who goes against this is going against the 1995 Mashwera.

               2015 Mashwera
               The Audio I shared with you clearly shows that the only decision made in the sitting with Haji Sahib was that Maulana Saad should make a Shura in Nizamuddin, when he gets back to India. Maulana Ahmad Bhawalpuri (RA) made it clear in the adab of Mashwera that each place should have a strong Shura with 1 Amir. Then Haji Sahib (RA) said to make a Shura wherever there is no Shura. Maulana Saad agreed to this, and he formed this Shura in the All India Mashwera in Nizamuddin in December 2015.
               The entire subject of adding brothers to a global shura, with any decision requiring 2/3 approval of this shura, was never brought up by Haji Sahib. In fact, Maulana Faheem then brought it up, and other elders were trying to make Haji Sahib accept this suggestion, which he never did in that mashwera, until it closed.
               It is true that Haji Sahib would not personally write any letter, he would ask his people to write it. But, those people should write only exactly what Haji Sahib decided, without any additions or changes. This is the amanat of being a katib for Haji Sahib. However, the letter, which was distributed with Haji Sahib’s signature, was not a reflection of Haji Sahib’s decision. Maulana Saad even went to Haji Sahib afterwards and asked him what he wanted, and he just said that he wants every Ummati to understand the responsibility of this work. That every masjid should be directly connected to Nizamuddin and Raiwand. Maulana Saad further asked Haji Sahib if he wants a global Shura. He explained this entire discussion to the audience at the 2015 Raiwand Ijtema.
               https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q9gV4wHgD-kOmfHv9W5EDm_HU5iUpihh/view?usp=sharing
               He asked him about making an Alami Shura, saying “if you want it, I’m ready”. Haji Sahib responded ‘no, there is no need for this. let every country do their own mashwera, people of Raiwand will have their own mashwera, people of Nizamuddin will have their own Mashwera, people of Bangladesh will have their own mashwera. When an issue comes for the 3 countries, then wait until we all get together. If anything comes from a country that needs an immediate answer, so I will be very particular, as I have always been particular, that I’ll send the question to Raiwand. Actually, I’ll ask the country that whatever question you have, send it to Raiwand, and also send a copy to Nizamuddin…”
               So, Maulana Saad knew very well that the decision explained letter which was distributed in the world was not something approved by Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib, nor himself. So, he was upset with the fact that some brothers violated the trust of both of them to distribute something different than both of their wishes. Of course, such a major breach of trust would cause confusion in the Ummat, and cause splits down the road, so anyone who cares for the work would be very upset.
               2016 Raiwand Mashwera
               After I shared the clip about Haji Sahib asking everyone to go back to Nizamuddin, you mentioned that this was an incomplete clip, which did not give the full context, and then shared with me the “wider” audio.
               I was very interested to hear the full audio of 2016. Unfortunately, the clip you shared contains content from 2015, so it is again not accurate to claim it is all from 2016 Raiwand Ijtema. I suggest you advise whoever shared it with you to correct it, since it is highly dishonest to claim the 2015 Raiwand Mashwera audio as part of 2016 Raiwand Mashwera.
               From 0:00 – 1:15 is from 2015 Raiwand Mashwera. The person who he is talking with is Aabir Rashid from Canada. He is my friend, and present in 2015, but not in 2016. The full audio of this piece is here:
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNn4Xx4wjCk&t=7s
               From 1:15 – 2:12- this is another occasion, I am not sure when, Haji Sahib explaining the 1995 Mashwera
               From 2:12 – 2:52 – conclusion of his sitting with old workers in 2016 Raiwand Ijtema, Haji Sahib telling everyone to go back to Nizamuddin
               From 2:52 – 3:51 – another brother explaining the 2016 sitting with Haji Sahib.
               Again, just to highlight that Haji Abdul Wahab Sahib was explaining the 1995 Mashwera, about not having an Amir, and not doing Bai’at. As discussed before, Maulana Saad and Maulana Zubair maintained this throughout their time together. The 1995 agreement clearly mentions bai’at will be suspended temporarily. It is obvious that this is because there were 3 faisals decided in 1995, so having bai’at would not be appropriate. On the death of Maulana Zubair, the basis of the suspension of the Bai’at was finished. Maulana Saad knows the reasoning better than anyone in the world, as he was in that mashwera, and it was his opinion/decision at the time.
               Finally, the 2016 Raiwand Ijtema audio of Haji Sahib asking everyone to go back to Nizamuddin, my translation is accurate, and yours is not. Alhamdulillah, in my country, I am among the brothers selected to translate the bayans of the elders in Nizamuddin or when they come to my country. I have translated Maulana Ibrahim Deola, Maulana Ahmad Latt Sahib’s bayans in big ijtemas in my country.
               The correct translation is:
               “Do you understand? The thing is this that All of you should go to Nizamuddin, and there, make dua to Allah Pak, and when you get there, whatever is decided there by Mashwera, keep on doing that. And keep making dua, Oh Allah, keeping the entire humanity in front, whatever I’m supposed to do, please put that in my heart. Ok?”

               Final comments about 1995 Mashwera.
               Once again, the exact wording of the 1995 Mashwera decision is the following:
               =====
               1.The responsibility of patronizing the work will not be on one individual; rather it will be on whole SHURA.
               2. Those who belong to Bangle wali Masjid from among this SHURA they are the members of SHURA of Nizamuddin. They together will take care of work of Nizamuddin. For any further decision in Nizamuddin from amongst these five SUHRA members, following three will work as a FAISAL by sequence.
               A. Maulana Izharul Hasan sb رحمۃ ہللا علیہ
               B. Maulana Zubairul Hasan sb رحمۃ ہللا علیہ
               C. Maulana Sa’ad sb
               3. For time being, the Bai’at shall remain suspended in Nizamuddin
               On your website, like on the letter of Dr Khalid, you always erase/hide the fact that there were 3 faisals decided for Nizamuddin Markaz, including Maulana Saad. This point is significant, because it means that even if Maulana Omar Palanpuri (RA) or Miyanji Mahrab (RA) were to be alive today, they would not be faisal in Nizamuddin while Maulana Saad or Maulana Zubair is present.
               You mention in 1996, the number of Faisals increased from 3 to 5. However, I have never heard anyone hear any announcement of this from any of the 10 Shura members of Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA), nor have a heard anyone see Maulana Omar Palanpuri (RA) or Miyaji Mahrab (RA) be faisal in Nizamuddin while either Maulana Saad or Maulana Zubair was present. So, there is a good chance that the decisions made during the journey of the elders 1996 are not being shared correctly. I suspect that during that journey, they may have decided that during any global mashwera (i.e. during the journey or others), the faisal rotation would include all 5 members of the Nizamuddin shura.
               In any case, Hazrat Ji Maulana Inamul Hassan (RA) selected Maulana Saad to be part of the Global Shura of 10, and the entire Shura of 10 agreed for Maulana Saad to be one of 3 faisals of Nizamuddin. All of the shura members had a high regard for Maulana Saad. Mufti Zainul Abideen wrote letters to people after this mashwera, individually praising each of the 3 selected faisals. So, you can say what you want about him, but those elders highly regarded Maulana Saad.

               Once again, jazakAllah for taking the time to read my response. You don’t need to accept what I am saying, my intention is not to convert you or anyone. These responses take time to prepare, and I could simply drop the discussion and do other things. However, knowledge is also amanat, and it is important to share whatever information we have for those who are looking for answers. My only intention is that whatever conclusion anyone comes to in this subject, it should be based on true and authentic decisions of our elders. There are many false and misleading statements being spread, which can cause unnecessary harm. I remain open to hearing any useful information which can help me find the truth. Until now, unfortunately, your explanations have not changed my opinion, as I still don’t feel you are accurately presenting the key decisions of the people in authority.
               May Allah put barakat in this discussion and make it a means of bringing peace and harmony and guidance in this dunya, and khair and aafiyah and forgiveness in the aakhira. Aameen

2. Excellent info.
   I didn’t go through everything, but quite a bit. A good source for people to understand the history of current times.

   1 point though…
   All our Akaabireen were totally against photography as it is clearly Haraam. Hence to use their photos will be a great disrespect to them and a source of punishment in the Hereafter.
   Ml Ibrahim Sb also made mention of this, I think, in the last Raiwind Ijtima or Old Workers Jor 2022.

   Reply

   1. Jzkk brother, I respect your opinion. The photographs are only for Readability and Google SEO. I have clarified this with my Shafiie Scholars and a bulk of scholars do say pictures on devices are permissible. Waallahualam.

      Reply

3. pls find below some precious information
   https://www.dropbox.com/s/06xy4cky1jr89w6/Majmoa%20Khutoot_English_2nd%20Edition.pdf?dl=0

   Reply

4. Here is a letter of Maulana Saeed Ahmad Khan Sahib (RA) about the temperment of dawat, and his advice regarding differences of opinions.

   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UZyfebVULoUlB6Vpfg3vwnjVMWHjBoPj/view?usp=sharing

   Reply

   1. Jazakallah Khair for sharing

      Reply

   2. Jazaakumu Llahu khayran jazaa. May Allah preserve you and all the ummah on khayr.

      Reply